Nokia N810 -- announced!
So we fooled you! I bet you expected a new Internet Tablet in January but we worked overtime and will get it ready earlier! It has been fun to watch how things have leaked out and everybody knew about it already before the launch ;-) It's been fun to make it, too.
So what is Nokia N810? From the hardware point of view, the basic engine is the same as in N800. But we added GPS and a nice sliding keyboard. The on-screen kb works, too, of course. And it is a bit smaller than N800.
So what is Nokia N810? From the hardware point of view, the basic engine is the same as in N800. But we added GPS and a nice sliding keyboard. The on-screen kb works, too, of course. And it is a bit smaller than N800.From the maemo based software point of view, a lot of new stuff. On the top of my list:
- UI improvements. Looks and feels better. Eye candy, functional improvements
- new browser
- faster updated Flash 9
- more multimedia formats supported
- improved finger usage
- nice set of 3rd party apps and services
- the best browser on any portable device!
- instant messaging
- VoIP
- music and videos
- GPS with maps and downloadable voice guided navigation
- WiFi + Cellular (through bt enabled phones)
And, you can update your N800 to run the new maemo based OS2008, too!
posted by Ari Jaaksi at 9:17 AM
113 Comments:
Hmm... wonder if you can answer these questions now that the device is public!
Does it have a stylus any more? Is that small hole on the left hand side of the screen an earpiece or a microphone? Is it backwards compatible with OS2007 software?
Whatever the answers, thanks very much for keeping OS2008 compatible with the N800 hardware, I think a lot of people will appreciate you doing that this time round.
Does it support charging via USB connection now?
I hope so!
Congratulations, Ari (and the rest of the team), it looks great!
Any news on access to the PowerVR graphics hardware? I havn't looked at the maemo ml for a couple of months, but last time I checked there were no linux driver for it. Is this still the case? Looks like there's some alpha blending going on there from the photo.
And all i miss is USB support for a docking station so i can use it with my 19" screen and a full size keybord, drag an drop music from my 250 GB hardisk.
-------------
But i would like to have one now.
Looks fantastic! I am going to get one the minute its in the shops!
Ari, you have forgotten to mention SIP support. Now we do VoIP over XMPP (as before) and also SIP-based VoIP!
Sasha
Man this thing is hot!
OS 2008 can run on N800, but will it run fast enough? Theres a processor difference between the N810 and N800
Nice upgrade on t he hardaware but when you say nice 3rd party application what is new. I like that I can play music, but I would love to be able to use a service wher eI can watch movies or Tv show legally like amazon unbox.
What a beautiful device.
Is it really true that it has lost one of the card slots, and that the remaining one is now mini-SD? Please tell me it's not true! (Not that I'm getting an N810, but I'm _seriously_ worried about upcoming tablets that could replace my N800)
That looks so incredibly cool! *jumps up and down up and down up and down*
Ari,
Now, there is navigation software in 810. Will it be possible to use that soft in n800 or its 810 only feature.
Map data shouldn't be problem, as now nokia owns navtek
@Ari: you're not supposed to post pictures of protos!
@Neoncherry: yes, it still has a stylus. The hole on the lefthand side is the ambient light sensor that adjusts the screen brightness according to light conditions (I did the code for that -- hooray for me!). As for backwards compatibility, I dunno. I only do lowlevel programming =)
@JrezIN: nope, no USB charging. There is a neat adapter from USB-to-Nokia charger plug though; I've got one of those - it works great.
@Per: no PowerVR support. Blending is done using the CPU, AFAIK.
@Anonymous: Nope, there's no cpu difference between the N800 and N810. The software runs fast enough on the N800, trust me.
@TA-t3: yes, one of the cardslots was replaced with built-in flash instead (dunno exactly how big it is, but it's big enough...). And the external slot is indeed mini-SD; no room for anything bigger (be happy we didn't have to use micro-SD...)
@Anonymous: The software image will run on both the N800 and N810; the hardware differences are dealt with transparently. Using an external bluetooth GPS is possible, to the best of my knowledge.
What do you mean with "Cellular (through bt enabled phones)"?
@David:
Elsewhere it says 2GB internal. That's not big enough by far, I have way more data that I need permanently installed already (i.e. not to be removed whenever I need to put another card from e.g. a camera into the slot). You should have kept the internal slot.
About mini-SD: The N810 can't be my media central the way the N800 is: My camera, video camera, zoom recorder (and a couple of PDAs) all use full-size MMC/SD/SDHC format. Big, big, big HUGE mistake there. I just hope you'll get that fixed for any future internet tablets. Hint: Changing interfaces for _every_ model is _not_ sane engineering!
What about the new browser? It's still based on Opera, or it's powered by any other web rendering engine?
@ta-t3: If you compare the size of the devices, you'll realise there simply wasn't any room for an internal slot. 2GB is the sweet spot for flash memory; anything more than that is *really* expensive, so we couldn't put anything bigger than that in the device. You can still swap the external card.
And since there are adapters from mini-SD to normal SD-size, you can still use the same cards in your cameras. going back to rs-mmc wasn't really an option; people seem to prefer SD over MMC, and since Nokia phones now use mini-SD.
If you can magically create more space (shrink the CPU, make the display thinner, or similar), I bet we could've kept the internal slot. As it is now, we couldn't. Simple as that.
@Iñigo: The new engine is gecko-based, AFAIK.
I answer myself. It seems it's going to be based on Mozilla.
Browser is Mozilla based (MicroB)
@TA-t3
I'm assuming the n810's preloaded map data *had* to go somewhere (thus ditching the user accessable internal card slot) I wouldn't freak out until people get 810's in hand. Maybe it's still a physical card burried in there there! How do you know that internal card can't be cloned and replaced with a larger card in some way? Look up, the sky is still there, at least for today :)
As for your other devices, a Mini-SD with full SD adaptor would work in all your gear. Yes, your old cards are stuck, but come on, did you think they would last forever?
@ajf, I assume it means internets over mobile phones
I have a question, does “more multimedia formats supported” mean native Ogg support yet?
@David Weinehall: Not really interested in adapters. I'm looking for build-in functionality.
Also, that's a thrid strike... N770 didn't supported charging via USB, N800 didn't also... and now N810.
I'm sad this nice device didn't has support for it, as it's really important feature for a mobile device. I'll pass this one... Hope I can enjoy it in the future. And good luck with this software pack, I hope Maemo, Hildon and cia may be the future for Linux-based mobile devices.
I'm very excited about the new n810 and that OS2008 will be coming for my currect n800. :) (It will be a little extra xmas gift for my wife now)
I see from the specs and posting on the net that h.264, wmv, etc will be supported.
Will this be supported on the n800 also? i.e. Is better video accelleration going to now be possible?
I've also seen mentioned that Flash video performance will be imporoved. (ie. Youtube, etc) Can you confirm this?
@jrezin: Back when the 770 came out, USB charging wasn't really common, so saying that it lacked it isn't particularly fair... The adapter will set you back about 15€ or so, and can be used with all Nokia phones that uses the smaller plug. If you're really passing on the device because of this, you have very odd priorities.
@johndrinkwater: No ogg this time either =( I'm pissed about this too, but it's not my decision. You'll have to take this up with Ari, Anssi Vanjokki or similar instead, to let the management know it's a desired feature.
@anonymous: The n800 will be able to run the exact same software as the n810. No differences. The only differences are practical ones; keyboard vs no keyboard, popout camera vs fixed camera, rgb led vs mono led, dedicated lock key vs [power] + [select], etc.
And yes, flash performance should be better; we're using flash 9 now.
@David Weinehall
Thank you for all the info! It REALLY does make a difference for tech customers.
Re: your comment about OS2008 having Flash 9 now. Didn't the last release of Bora have Flash 9 already? I take it this is a more optimized or feature rich version now?
Thanks again!
@anonymous: Actually now that mention it, it might be that Bora already had Flash 9 (since the N800 launch I've been too busy working on the N810 to know what happened with the updated N800 release). But there should be some optimisation, and I think the browser engine change may improve the compatibility too. I'm no big Flash-user (since it impedes the browsing experience even on desktop machines), so I'm not the right person to ask, I guess.
The fact that there's at least two projects around to add vorbis support is probably a pretty good hint for "management" :)
I wouldn't mind so much to have to install one of those if I just knew which one works best, and if it worked in the built-in player.
@nhoglund: management doesn't really care about what developers on maemo-devel do (in that case they'd probably be worrying about attempts to reverse engineer stuff rather than anything else...); the only thing they care about, except for sales, is customer requests and reviews.
If reviews in newspapers, computer magazines, or one of the bigger retail stores (say Best Buy, for instance) would bemoan the lack of ogg vorbis support, the next software release would probably have it. That's been the case for wma, skype, gtalk, voip, improved flash, etc.
Sadly, a lot of end users things that music on computers == mp3, and while they might from time to time run into badly encoded mp3's, they never run across ogg vorbis encoded material, so they won't experience the improved quality, smaller files, etc.
Personally, I have my entire CD-collection (several hundred CD's...) ripped to OGG Flac and transcoded to OGG Vorbis for playback on my Samsung YP-U2, so I too would really like to see OGG Vorbis support. I just don't see it happen in an official manner anytime soon, unless there is big demand for it.
Congratulations on your new product release!
reciprocally, I take jaded satisfaction (if such a thing exists) in noting that I'd pretty much figured it out ahead of time. Heck, I knew when the Gizmo project folks pulled their beta, it was because a phone call was made (now the Skype folks need to step up, lest those of us who bought into the platform because we saw their software as the dealmaker decide that someone else makes software that actually uses the headset, not to mention the video camera). Anyway, the ideal spin on the n810 pre-release coverage would be: we got the word out, maximizing the positive reception. But of course, I had little to do with that. And I'm perfectly happy not to subscribe to any "Blog with my expensive toys" service.
I'm sure the n810 will build even more buzz. Integrated GPS will be great for all those cool toys that only Open-Source can bring (stuff it in a backback with high-resolution aerial/sat photos: dang that's not only cool, that's an ideal app -- kudos to the meeting that spawned the built-in GPS). The price gets a little steep, and the MiniSD may be frustrating (I can think of cases where this would have caused issues for me, but I can also see that the unit has some sort of miniSD caddy), but hey, it works, and now it really should fit in the pocket.
But, cool.
Is there USB Host support (including any appropriate changes in the connector)?
Being able to connect an external CF/SD
reader or digital camera would be quite
useful given the loss of the external SD slot.
Being able to use this to review pictures
from a digital SLR or other camera
would be a killer app for some people.
Have there been any improvements in the performance of the frame buffer for enabling full-screen video with less CPU consumption?
Is GTalk between two N800/N810 still the only way to do a video conversation?
IMO video conversations with PCs would be a huge feature to set the N800/N810 apart from some other (ahem) competitors.
Oh and Ari, a great many thanks for providing us N800 users with the new ITOS2008! It's, well it's just great!
Thanks David Weinehall for replying all those comments.
I'm glad to hear about the GPS, the keyboard and the smaller size (the n800 was okay for a pocket, not that nice neither).
As everyone i'm disapointed by the lack of Vorbis (is it that much work to add ?), the lack of USB charger (with the adapter it's still one more extra cable to carry arround). About the SD slot, I perfectly understand that you take one off (specially if adding 2Gb of flash), but reducing the second is frustrating. I'll have to spend some 50€ extra euros to buy a new 4Gb card.
Congratualtions for your work. Let's seen if I get enought money to buy my own :)
the new device looks cool. :)
but, how about the maps?
will they be avaliable for n800 users too?
Can it generate driving directions? or do we need to go online?
:)
ps: will there be a new device developer program?
No one seems to have the b@lls to comment on these things:
1. How does the device handle youtube?
2. When loading a graphic/flash filled site, like engadget, how does the tablet handle it? Does it load faster, is scrolling smooth?
I am a fan of the 770 (already gave it to a friend though), because of the really useful cover.
The N800 is also nice (have 2 of them). But the screen is not really protected :-(
Now I looked at the pictures of the N810 ... and some questions came to my mind instantly:
- Why a a step back to a slider keyboard?
- Why is the arrow keypad on the slider?
Well the slider keyboard may be nice for some people with tiny fingers, for all that like to use the pen the slider does not make that much sense. Therefore pen users would like to leave the slider closed and the arrow keys next to the display would then be notably missing - or did I miss anything? Think of scrolling a map or just playing a game (blocks?) where you do not want to enter text.
Please make sure to push the internal memory even further in the next release and that at least 2 easily reachable sd card slots are there. Mini-SD is OK in my Opionion. For example 2 times 4 GB Mini SD plus internal memory of 4 GB could make even people happy that are replacing their ipods :-)
Ogg support should be in the next software update, so I will write an review of the N810 and make sure that it is clearly mentioned that OGG is really missing! Isn't maemo using gstreamer? I thought gstreamer uses plugins so it should be easy to add ogg audio and video support - shouldn't it?
Regarding VoIP/Jingle between the N8x0 and Linux desktops: gajim has a jingle svn branch which still needs work but it will be there when it's ready. If only audio or also video I'm not certain - haven't found the time to get all the necessary libs together and try it.
gajim works on windows and mac too, so there may be hope for almost any user. Maybe next ubuntu release will have gajim with jingle? :-)
How come CPU specs of N800 montion 330Mhz and:
http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html
tells 400MHz?
I belive N810 has same CPU but it is clocked higher by software.
For lack of OGG support, why not use mplayer to play those files?
ups, some how URL was cut:
http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html
Ok, URL is always cut by blogger, now in 4 rows:
http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/
media/sections/products/
tech_specs/en-R1/
tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html
@Anonymous: I have no idea about the maps; they'll probably be available for download (at least the software gives you the option to download when starting it without any maps installed).
And yes, there will be a new developer program; read Quim Gil's blog entry on here for a bit more information.
@Rob: I don't think it has anything to do with having balls or not. We launched the device a couple of hours ago, and I haven't even seen you asking about it before. If you don't ask, you don't get answers...
I haven't personally done any performance comparisons between the 2007 edition and the 2008 edition, so I don't know if there are any performance differences, and if so, how big they are (but others have made such tests; you might be able to get the info you want by asking on the maemo-developers mailing-list or on #maemo).
That said, engadget seemed to load fine; as for scrolling, it tears from time to time, but not majorly so, and I just made a quick test of Youtube. Worked fine too.
@mfl: a lot of people consider a keyboard an improvement (including myself); I guess it's a matter of personal taste (the only thing I miss is a duplicate Fn key -- but as you might notice, there isn't really any room left).
As for the rocker: yes, I too think the placement is stupid. I'd guess it's a combination of two issues: someone from management didn't try out the design before approving it, and someone from the design team had a wish to make a device that looks neat and symmetrical.
When scrolling around you can use the stylus though; dragging/pushing is the natural way of scrolling on this device. As for Tetris, I guess you'll have to get used to opening the keyboard.
Our platform indeed uses gstreamer, and yes, gstreamer supports plugins, so technically it should indeed be easy to incorporate support for Ogg Vorbis/Flac/Speex/Theora/Dirac, but as I mentioned, if there's no demand that management notices, it won't happen.
As much as we'd like to from time to time, we (as in the internal developers) are not allowed to add our pet features without having approval from the platform architect first, since it'll have to go through legal checks, business case studies, yada yada yada.
Speaking of getting the Ogg Vorbis request heard, I've just created a pledge at PledgeBank -- people who have an earlier tablet but are willing to reward Nokia for pledging to work on Ogg support, please sign it at this URL.
Thanks!
@Anonymous: Video over SIP should work if the remote end support H263 (the 1996 version, the codec used on the device doesn't support h263+ or anything fancier). That said, video support in most PC SIP clients is flaky at best.
What type of USB connector is that?
David Weinehall
Thanks for all the info!
As a potential customer that has been looking at Apple and OpenMoko type hardware I find this new release a bit puzzling.
One thing I don't get is the lack of USB charging. For people on the go, USB represents a common point of juice.
Second; I'm a bit frustrated by the internal memory size (secondary storage). Let face it if you reduce the external ports for secondary storage you need to make up for it someplace. I understand fully the cost issue which then brings up the idea of giving customers a option. So can you push management to offer a model with at least 8 gig of Flash memory. Honestly I'd prefer 32 gig but do realize the cost limitations.
Third: this is an issue for management, but Nokia has to do something about the use of Flash on their corporate web sites. Especially the Nseries site. Help them to realize that I have no interest in doing business with a company that has its web sites bound up in Flash. Flash simply isn't acceptable on business oriented web sites! So if they want sales they need to free the web of Flash.
In any event the lack of storage space is such an issue that I'm already looking for something else. After spending a good part of the year looking at Nokias various web sites associated with he N800, I don't understand how they could update the machine and actually reduce available storage space.
Speaking of Flash on Nokia's NSeries-website: Not only that it's flash, it also seems to be somehow broken. When I go to the site (Firefox on GNU/Linux), I see some bars, a big capital N somewhere in the middle, empty menus without text - and thats it. No text, no images, nothing. I never had this before with any flash-based site.
OS2008 works on N800 just fine.
Flash has much better berformance than before.
USB host mode is required to some extent for microUSB certification. Note that USB port does not provide power.
Ogg is not supported, but adding a gstreamer plugin works. There are plenty of other changes in Media player, and in many of the other applications such as Image viewer, RSS reader & VoIP communication.
One reason to have rocker beside keyboard is to make the device smaller (it slides below display).
You can use external GPS module (for improved fix time etc.).
For driving instructions, you need a separate license.
what kind of gps hardware is buil in?
My big question is about Video playback performance.
The 770 and the N800 have been plagued by sluggish video playback performance for anything close to VGA resolutions. I have the n800 and I know the CPU is not the bottelneck as it will rarely go above 50%. From what I've read and understood tehre was a screen bandwidth issue, something that coudl be related to drivers and that should have been worked on in Maemo 4.
Can you please tell us about playback performance under the supplied Media Player and mplayer?
Does VGA Divx or XVid play at 30fps?
What is the maximum resolution and bandwidth of h264 files that the n800 and n810 can play?
@David & all:
About space limitations in the N810 more or less forcing the choice of smaller slots/interfaces: This is understandable. What worries me though isn't really the N810, as it isn't for me - hardware miniature keyboards aren't useful for all of us. What I'm seriously worried about is any future _upgrade_ for the N800 (the N810 is more like an alternative version). For a future NIT without (a cost-adding) slide-out keyboard there shouldn't be such space requirements. I seriously hope for full-size SD support, and keep the internal slot too. Those two things (2 slots, full-size SD) was what really bought me as far as the N800 is concerned.
@anonymous:
"last forever?" No, I don't think full-size SD should "last forever". But here we're talking sbout _current_, even _new_ technology! SDHC just made it out the door, 16GB arrived only weeks ago, and 32GB next year. Brand new devices (e.g. the Panasonic HDC-SD5 camcorder) uses high-capacity SDHC cards. So that's the kind of cards I'm buying for the foreseeable future. Low-capacity miniature cards in adapters won't cut it.
@David: Thanks for all the useful information in this thread.
@Anonymous: we're using hardware that is already used in other Nokia products as much as possible; all other Nokia products use a regular charger rather than USB charging. In that context, I don't think it's too hard to get why there's no USB charging.
As for the lack of internal storage: this device is, believe it or not, primarily meant for browsing (Internet Tablet), not a music or video player. For a portable video player, 2GB internal storage + 8GB of external (I think 8GB is the largest SD cards available at the moment -- not sure) might seem a bit small, but for browsing, it's definitely enough.
For most use cases it's enough for music too; my music collection (in Ogg Vorbis format; add 15-20% and deduct sound quality if you want mp3) is already 50GB, so any flash based player on the market is too small anyway. Still, I find that my 2GB Samsung YP-U2 is perfectly enough; I can update the music every 3-4 days and still not get repeats, other than by random selection).
And no, I cannot push management to offer a device with more memory (well, I can nag, but they won't listen). You're the consumer, you'll have to do that. That said, it's very unlikely to happen.
As I said, we're not selling a music or video player, and we're nowhere near the sales volumes that makes it feasible to afford having an extra production line to make devices with larger flash. If we'd be shipping these devices in the same volumes as the N95 or the iPod, then sure, I bet it'd happen in a jiffy, but we're not.
As for the Flash usage on the Nokia website, I think you'll find that most of the Joe average consumers (think Microserfs) thinks that a website is outdated unless it has Flash bling-bling, sad but true. And as you say yourself, it's a question you'll have to direct to management anyway (or actually, customer feedback).
If the lack of storage is such an issue, you're probably using the device for something that isn't one of its primary use cases. While that's really nice, I think you'll have to accept that our main priorities lies elsewhere =)
Also, to clarify things: the N810 is not intended to be the next generation after the N800, it's basically meant to be an N800 with keyboard + GPS. IOW a different configuration more than anything. As such, some compromises had to be made.
@Anonymous: The Nokia N-series Flash pages seems to work perfectly fine for me (using Debian GNU/Linux, flashplugin-nonfree, and epiphany-gecko). Are you using Gnash?
@Olivier: The N800 and N810 basically has the same hardware, so you can expect similar video playback behaviour (except for cases where there's been tuning, improvements and bugfixes, of course, but since IT OS 2008 runs on the N800 too, the gains will be similar). If it's really about screen bandwidth, I don't really see how driver changes could affect anything, since that's a hardware issue.
I have no idea about the framerates, maximum resolutions etc though. I only watch movies at the cinema and using my home theatre =)
@Ta-t3: You (should) know we cannot comment about future products, so any speculation is pointless. Sorry =/
@Anonymous: that camcorder presumably has a lot more space for its memory slot though, and has a primary use case that actually requires a lot of storage. And you said it yourself, SDHC just made it out on the market, we've been working on this device for quite a while now.
Combine this with the fact that we, as I've mentioned several times earlier, didn't have the room for a full sized slot, and I think you'll understand why we had to make the choice we did. 4GB (that seems to be the largest mini-SD I can find by googling) is IMHO still quite a lot, especially considering that those cards are >100€. I'm only using a 1GB card in my DSLR, for comparison.
Again, the choices made by our hardware designers (disclaimer: I'm not one of them) are based on our primary use cases, and, at to a large degree, what's already available through Nokia sourcing (that is, things that are used or under testing for other products).
Great stuff! Well Done Nokia OSS Team! :-) Keep going!
~/Music/Ogg Vorbis% ls -l|wc -l
669
All paid and legal music. 810 ain't on my shopping list.
It's a pity that company with long engineering and standardization history promotes skype and other vendor specific proprietary solutions.
IT illiterate consumers are ignorants and thus we should guide them, not to help them to paint themselves into corner with formats and protocols.
Tuju
Some quick comments:
(Thanks David for providing answers)
-binary break for apps; guidance @maemo
-bt headset ok
-camera + light sensor on the fron cover
-stylys, yes, but much more usabe with fingers only
-yes, SIP support ;-)
-maps & navigation included. You must upgrade to Wayfinder's voice-guided navigation for turn-by-turn directions
-I can publish what I want ;-)
-N810 can use your bluetooth enabled phone as a modem and get connected over cellular
-no ogg out of the box; I bet through maemo.org
-developer program @ http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192708879.html
Have you ever tried to use N800 or this new N810 as notepad for taking notes throughout the day (as for example Palm could be used)?
For such activity the pen-based single-stroke text entry is much faster than using keyboard. And the absence of key-clicks is important at meetings to avoid any distractions.
Currently with N800 you can't leave power adapter at home even if you go out for a day. And when in meetings you have to constantly fight for the power outlet with the laptop users.
For me there are two things, that I long from Palm days and wait from the future tablets -- battery life measured in days, instead of minutes, and pen-based fast text entry.
Does the new N810 supports entering character "õ" with pen?
@anonymous
Re: battery life. I get through a day easily with my N800. Wifi, bluetooth DUN, browsing, some voip, email, photos, notes, etc. Really I think the battery life is quite good. Even with the most hard core wifi/data/streaming with high brightness there's 3-4 hours continuous use available.
Surely your doing something other then note taking if you can't make it through a day?
Or are you streaming net radio during the meetings :)
I can confirm that an N800 can easily last more 4 hours taking notes using Google Docs, (obviously) WiFi and a bluetooth keyboar, screen is set at 50% brightness.
I actually wish a more robust and stable browser to work with the google suite (with class notes reliability is fundamental). Now MicroB speed is more than sufficient, but stability could be definitely improve.
In fact, if google will give to its suite the ability to be used in a browser offline (easier to say than to do) the N800 and similar devices will have a ready suite to benefit form and a centralized/synced docs management.
Ciao da Torino!
My usual working day is more than 4 hours.
And I usually switch even wifi and bt off during meetings to get the battery last longer, but I still need to have to recharge during day -- so lugging the charger around is unfortunately must.
I'd also love to know what kind of chipset is involved with GPS, is it a SiRFstar III, or something else. Also, when you have an internet signal, will it possibly allow for assisted GPS for faster acquisition times like the N95? (Some newer GPS units that have internet access will download the ephemeris data from the internet for lock-on times in the 5-10 second range from a cold start.)
QUESTION 1: Does MicroB browser still loses touch scrolling?
Has the issue where MicroB browser engine on N800 loses touch scrolling on some websites such as the Wall Street Journal (www.wsj.com) been fixed on N810 or ITOS2008?
Note: Opera engine touch scrolling works well on such sites.
QUESTION 2: Is there a pan and scroll option in new browser?
Minimo browser has an option to enable pan and scroll mode where the page URL's become disabled and you can just use your finger and stylus to drag and scroll the web page. Is there an equivalent option in the new browser?
(Minimo browser's option is less usable because it switches back to non-scrollable mode on screen tap)
Just wanted to thank you guys for doing the good work in making these excellent tablets. I love my N800 so far. I use the browser with Opera engine which works fine for me (I don't use AJAX sites much on N800).
MicroB browser losing touch scrolling - Another example is CNN's website
I just tried another news site popular in the US (www.cnn.com) in the MicroB engine version 0.0.8-3 on Nokia N800 and MicroB loses touch scrolling on this website as well just like it loses it on www.wsj.com.
Could you confirm if the loss of touch scrolling has been corrected in the new N810 browser on such sites?
Note: Opera works ok on these sites.
First of all: THANK YOU FOR MAKING ALL THIS POSSIBLE.Whole open source world should thank you very much for doing all this, looks like new era is starting and in this era world will be open and users, developers and manufacturers will have a real fun when cooperating on same task - creating great devices for making all us happy.
> the best browser on any portable device!
Uhm.... to be honest, I'm personally found 2 bugs in MicroB (beta) which are seriously hurting my web experience. These are 2123 and 2124 on Maemo.org's bugzilla.Once I'm read than Opera is to be removed, I'm really want to see MicroB even better since for example, failure to render site where other browsers are suceed is not an option if you want decent browsing experience.Or how can I rely on browser which fails where other browsers are working ok?
Also, from H\W point of view I'm amazed why Nokia removed such GREAT feature as 2 full-sized MMC\SD slots?With just one MiniSD/MicroSD slot n810 looks like a total downgrade compared to n800 features :(
First; thanks for the response to my previous posting! It helps me better understand the thinking that went into the machine.
Second; Though I suspect that a lot of thought went into the design and the use cases that it was built around, on important thing seems to have been missed. That is the addition of the GPS facility drastically changes the character of the machine. You now have good reason to stuff a great deal of mapping data into the on board storage space. In other words the simple addition of GPS changes the potential uses for the device considerably. Many of these uses require significant storage space.
Third; Given the nature of such hardware, Storage demands will always be increasing. It is not just media files either, in may case I'm not even a fan of the music scene. It would not be uncommon on a device like this to want to carry around all your E-Mail files and an assorted number of PDF's. So even without the GPS consideration the storage space provided is a problem. More memory is needed simply to keep up with users making more an more demands on the hardware.
Any ways that is my point of view. The good thing is that the expansion card industry continues to move forward with larger memory cards.
Dave
Hello, thanks for answering so many questions regarding the N810. Even with all the negative comments I think you all have been very generous.
My questions come from an ignorance of the N series since I havnt bought one yet. I plan to use an N series tablet in conjunction with my Digital Camera for field work. I would like to know if it is POSSIBLE (probably not likely) that the N series can talk directly to my Camera via USB; allowing me to download pictures from camera to viewer. I would also like to know if the N series would be able to communicate via USB to an external Hard disk. I realize as you mentioned earlier that these are not the uses for the N series that you envisioned.
first of all: i read all the
comments so far and i am still
happy to be one of the "hardcore
user" who will be able to upgrade
to the new OS on my n800 and to be
sure that n810 is "just" a n800
with keyboard. thanks for that.
just 2questions:
what about PIM-SYNC?
and what about A2DP?
would be nice to know...
thanks again for all your support and devices like these.
regards from hamburg|GER
My last comment, loosely referring to some of the earlier postings about "what the ITT is for". It's been said it's meant as an internet browsing device, not really as a music player, for example. Yep, that's something I use my N800 for - browser and email. However, I hope Nokia is/will be aware of how many of us are grabbing hard at the possibility to not have to carry our laptops everywhere we go. In fact, this is one of the first ideas that seem to pop into people's minds when I show them my N800, not right away, but as soon as I start showing in detail what it can do. You can see the light come on in their eyes. We all know that management guys in the higher decision-making ranks have those 1.3kg ultra-thin 14-inch super-expensive laptops, but the rest of us are carrying 4kg monsters and we're sick and tired of it.
So far the N800 has removed my need to drag the laptop around by some 80% or so. And I'm not alone. I don't have any music (or many videos, except for a few training videos) on my N800, but I have tons of documents and other material on it. Thus my need for lots and lots of storage, with no mp3 in sight. I'm certain the N810 will find an even bigger market here, with its keyboard.
Some have suggested the tablets should've been in the E series, not N.. maybe the right designation would be 'NE800/NE810' ;-)
Regarding battery size, I do hope it is much improved in this model. My N800 won't even make it through a full day in standby mode, even though the battery meter claims 10 days' standby. During active use I'll get about 4 hours; in standby maybe 10-12.
Then you may want to re-flash you unit or get a new battery. My n800 and my business partner's n800 last for days on standby. Something is wrong.
Initially, I was extremely excited about the N810 and planned to purchase it. However, the decision to ship with a software-crippled GPS has put a wrench into my plans.
$130 (for a three year subscription only!) turns this into a $600+ GPS device. Please Nokia, re-think this ill-thought-out release and fully enable GPS w/o the $43/year surcharge!
Jeff Elkins
Honestly, I have been a long time supported of Nokia, and of their tablet devices.
I have owned 6 different Nokia phones, and both the 770 and the N800 I own today.
I find it absolutely absurd to think that I will have to pay $610 for a device with full GPS, when I could simply buy a top of the line GPS standalone and an N800 for the same price.
Its very simple Nokia, dont charge extra for the Navi software. Do not do it. I hate Archos for this same bait/switch/tease thing they do.
If it comes out this way, im selling my N800 and my Archos and buying a Samsung UMPC. It should cost $450 with full GPS features.
Quoting david weinehall: "Also, to clarify things: the N810 is not intended to be the next generation after the N800, it's basically meant to be an N800 with keyboard + GPS. IOW a different configuration more than anything."
So, will Nokia continue to produce the N800 with the new OS2008, or has manufacturing of that device ceased? At the current discounted price, the N800 is now very attractive to those of us who were price-sensitive to the original price, and who certainly are not in the market for a $479 device (N810), even if it has additional desirable features.
With OS2008, it feels like the N800 has finally reached the potential it was advertised with at launch. It seems a shame that it only reaches that level as its retail life ramps down.
Amazing device and I'd be the first to buy it...but paid GPS software? In Ukraine (where I live) I doubt there quality maps for even major cities so why would you want to waste money on useless GPS subscriptions?
Congradulations!
I love my nokia tablet. Favorite hand held since I got a palm pilot many years ago.
Design looks great - basically a big screen with controls on the side. Keyboard!! Better screen! Mozilla! Improved battery! Great job.
Features I am hoping for:
* Ogg support - should be straight forward - why not just do it and make sure it is integrated?
* Integrated Dictionary - English - Chinese, Character recognition, Japanese etc. Almost everyone in Asia has one of these - big market. There are a few free ones available - but an official nokia version would be good.
* PIM - at least show phone numbers from google address book.
I would love to see the n810 take off like iphone and potentially umpc.
Good work with the new tablet.
My question is what will happen to Maemo once the Ubuntu mobile and other small Linux forms are released, esp. for MIDs.
Will they coexist just as different distributions of Linux exist and applications will be just easily ported or can there be a merge?
Some comments:
- Regarding USB Charging:
No... not supported.
- USB Docking station?
It'd be nice, but there's much more than just attaching a usb connector. USB Docking stations draws too much power from the device. n810 can source up to 100mA (otg support here!!) and USB Docking Stations can draw over 400mA (up to 500mA). Also, we'd need kernel modules for every functionality in that Docking station: usb-to-vga, mouse, keyboard, usb hub, parallel, serial, etc... It's not that easy :-p
- Speed at n800 with OSSO2008:
The basic machine is the same, which means that is the same processor ;-)
- Card slots:
It lost one card slot, but it got one internal memory of 2gb... enough for most of us... and Yes, the other is mini-SD.
I hope the new OS will finally allow bluetooth headsets to work with VoIP applications. I was gutted after I discovered this didn't work.
I am still waiting for Mobipocket or eReader to show up on this device. But man is that device sexy. I might purchase this little device.
A slider keyboard may be a good fit for some people but keeping a pure slate like N800 alive and having all those other handsets where there is no room for qwerty may need some alternatives like these:
http://www.docbug.com/blog/archives/000241.html
In the meantime the developers of the most viable option (according to my experiene and taste) - Twiddler have posted a sad "give up" statement on their page:
"Unfortunately, however, a big stumbling block is the price tag for development. After figuring as carefully as we could, the development would cost about $60,000. This is simply too much for Handykey to take on..."
http://www.handykey.com/
May be a helping hand and a not so hefty acquisition wallet will make difference in the handicapped world of mobile typists?
please make it available in south east asia region. there are a lot of people waiting to own this amazing device.
Will bluetooth microphone+headphone devices work?
@David
it's a pity the FM radio is gone!
I can tell you I am very happy about this device. Can't wait for the SIM enabled tablet.
From here http://stuff.tv/blogs/future/archive/2007/10/17/hands-on-with-the-nokia-n810.aspx it seems on the roadmap! :-)
Hopefully the FM radio will be back! You mention often that only managers can take decision for new features. How can we make our voice heard?
I was almost about to buy an ipod touch, but now that the Holy Grail of devices (tablet + SIM + wifi + SIP + flash + lot more) can be seen far away, I'll hold on... ;-)
Thank you!
Hi Ari,
really good products - the Nokia N810 and N800 - but the practical use is difficult - Example - Asian Trip
Our problem is as follows:
we are planning an Asian trip and we will not take a laptop with us we want to take only a Nikon Camera (CF-4GB Card) and the Nokia N800 with us
we will Blogging with the N800 and the MaemoWordPy (WordPress Account)
we will use Mirage Apps for small image processing
And now our real problem - How do we get the pictures on the N810 or N800
What's your answer - Buy not an N810 or N800 and buy better a Asus EEE 8G (701) ???????
Thanks for your Feedback
Frank
David Weinehall,
You guys really screwed up!
As I can buy a 16G SDHC card NOW (and may be a 32G SDHC next year), and I have no idea when a 16G mini SD would be available, you guys really screwed up in the design of the N810!
You asked for a suggestion from the posters as to where to find some space to put it. Let me tell you, get rid of the 2G internal memory, and correspondingly reduce the price of the unit!
Let the consumer decide whether he wants to buy and use two 16G or 32G SDHC cards, because he has a lot of data that he likes to store.
Look at companies like Canon and Nikon, etc., who have consistently used compact flash cards (and SDHC cards now such as Canon TX1 for HD video). Now look at Sony. Sony got its head stuck some where deep inside and promoted their stupid and expensive memory sticks. Their digital camera sales went down the hill.
Give the consumer the choice. The lack of full size SDHC memory cards would be the only reason I wouldn't buy an N810.
Imagine two 32GB SDHC cards on an N820! Oh one more thing, while you are at it, what is stopiing you guys from adding a basic 4 band single chip GSM cellphone module? If one thing N800 lacked in my opinion it would have been a GSM module! Then I could really get rid of my cellphone when I travel.
I will stick to my N800 until you guys come up with a revised N810 or an N820 with 2 full size slots!
@anonymous
regarding why not a cellphone - Ari answered your question about what stops Nokia for making the IT into a cellphone here
I was pretty much set to buy a N810 when it comes out, just to find out that I need to pay $129 for 3 years of GPS nav service!? This is a major turn off for a lots of people. This pricing model probably works few years back. Today, it is hard to justify "subscription" based GPS services and most people will turn away from this device.
any changes in use of the webcam? Is it possible to have webcam chats to regular google talk clients with the new os?
Hi Ari,
Gphone?!... I think Nokia needs to put Maemo as part of an industry ecosystem. And no as Nokia's tablet specific ecosystem. Make the platform much further open.
What do you think?
@the anomymous haters
The 2G internal flash has one significant advantage over N800's 2 sd card slots in that developers will be able to write apps that require large amounts of data, and they will be sure that user will not remove the data by swapping out a card.
@David Weinall and the OGG whiners
You do realize that libvorbisidec is available so you ~can~ play back ogg files. What's missing is DSP-based playback. This is particularly needed for the games I port (pupnik.de) which suffer 5-10% cpu overhead on decoding ogg-vorbis. Right now i have to convert game music to mp3 for dsp-based playback.
A maemo developer has been teaching himself the dsp programming and has tremor (vorbis) running on DSP task, but there are crash problems and limits with shared memory. I think he will put the project on garage. If any dsp/gstreamer developers can help him (in an unofficial capacity) to get past these stumbling blocks, it would be very much appreciated.
Great work and thanks for the beautiful device. Lets help spread the word and generate sales for Nokia.
you know.. the miniSD was indeed a mistake, make the tablet f'ing bigger next time.. especially with 16GB SD cards on the market for US$139, where's the miniSD 16GB card?? there isn't one.. this made the difference for me. I'm sorry. great leap forward over the 800 with the hardware keyboard, however. GPS was a good touch too. but alas, it failed in my most important need category, storage.
i'll keep watching you now tho. thanks. =)
hi,
will this device play video streams from websites such as a news site which uses the window media player format. please forgive my ignorance if this sounds like a silly question.
Well I've ordered one - just waiting for it to arrive.
A few questions.
Is the 2Gb of internal flash user accessable or only for app use?
Is is, by chance, an internally installed mini SD card (like some MP3 players use)? ie: one that a user could swap out to increase capacity?
Is the 8Gb card limit because of current avaialbility or built into the architecture? (My Palm claims support for only 2Gb cards but has no problem with 4gb cards).
Is there any USB video out possibility in the future (ie: via software)
Excuse my ignorance if any of these questions are daft!
Thanks.
ok now I'll buy it for sure thank you :)
I hesitated with n770 less with n800 this n810 is what I look for
when will it be available?
When it is available in switzerland? It is almost christmas and I can not get my gift!!!!
Michael.
I know this is old, but it seems like Ari is a good person to hear this: Nokia lost another sale today, as a 2007/2008 device should support Ogg Vorbis out-of-the-box, without having to jump through hoops. Certainly via the N810's built-in DSP without penalty. The iPod Touch lost my money for the same reason (amongst others).
Looks like iRiver will be getting my cash this round, unless Nokia fixes this huge oversight with an update soon.
I bought the N810 a month ago, and love it, but unfortunately, I've got a problem. It appears that the built-in microphone is faulty. I used to be that those I called using skype could easily hear my voice, but now it is nearly inaudible with some funny electronic sounding artifacts (like hum). If, however, I use Skype with the provided earbud and microphone, the out-going volume is just fine. I'm following up with Nokia, but I'd be interested if anyone else is having the same problem
God damn, fuckety fuck! Now reading these blog comments I just realised that changing from N800 to N810 was a big mistake for me. This weekend I took my new N810 with me, together with four 16 GB SDHC cards I've been using with my N800 before.
It was on a train to the north when I grabbed the new N810 and tried to insert first of my media storage cards in, when I hit the wall. They're not fitting in!
So I spent my full-day train trip with no media, and will be spending two weeks holiday with no media, and then a train trip back, still with no media.
It'll be grim shit, this holiday. But the worst part is that I just recently shelled out some hefty load of cash to purchase a bunch of 16 GB SDHC cards, which are now totally useless for me! I can't even use them on my DSLR, since it only uses CF cards.
Is there any liability on Nokia's side? Can I send this useless new tablet back to you, or would Nokia reimburse the cost of those memory cards? The cards fucking cost me ~500 euro, that's fucking 750 USD thrown to trash! And at this time, there's no 16 GB microSDHC available for purchase even if I wanted to buy more cards!
I was aware that changing to 810 will cost me one SD card slot (replaced with a pathetic 2 GB internal storage, which can't never ever upgraded or swapped), but I just can't believe, that they killed BOTH of the slots!
So, in South Park style: You bastard!
Cool..I'm very happy about GPS application in this phone, Great for my job in geography. And what about game application in this stuff? Is this same as cool as N-gage?
Nokia reviews
Nokia N810 and
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Nokia needs one more steep to beat i phone...just put SIM slot in N810. I do not know why Nokia tries to neglect it. Come on..Keep that in mind, N810 will be great device if it has a function as a phone. I am waiting the new one.
what a beautiful cell phone, look at the screen, the color resolution, and the excellent option to have a keyboard to write more easily your message.
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